Nov 7, 2022·edited Nov 7, 2022Liked by Leighton Woodhouse
It isn't just a matter of partisanship in Congress. The Chinese government wasn't cooperative when WHO tried to investigate, and unless that changes, it's unlikely we'll really be able to reach a definite answer.
I agree that Congressional partisanship and culture war nonsense plays a role in all this, but it's secondary. If the Chinese government really wanted to uncover the truth, they could. But they don't want to, either because they already know it was a lab leak, or because they're worried it might have been, or at least because they're afraid that the truth, whatever it turned out to be, would be embarrassing for them.
I agree, which is what I meant by "both sides of the Pacific." Just added in a few words though to clarify that the reason the Biden investigation was inconclusive was because of Chinese non-cooperation.
It's not just a matter of historical justice, either. Stunningly, virologists CONTINUE to do the dangerous Gain-of-Function research that most likely led to the creation (and accidental release) of Covid-19. This research doesn't even have real scientific or medical value; its' real utility is in keeping virologists employed. Another example of how the professional-managerial class's financial objectives are an irrational driver of public policy, in this case with stunningly tragic results.
It is regrettable that so many commenters are as stubborn as the NIH position: they firmly believe Covid leaked from a lab but have no more evidence than the NIH and some scientists have to support their hypothesis that the Covid virus originated in an animal. Both NIH and commenters here have faith, not evidence, that the virus came from a lab leak. At this time no hard evidence or proof exists to substantiate either hypothesis, even though circumstantial evidence and politics are strongly in favor of a lab accident or contamination. People believe what concurs with their own biases or personal interest. All possible sources for a lab leak or accident need to be considered and pursued and we need to reserve judgment rather than aligning ourselves with opinions that have no substantiating evidence. In any case it is clear that GOF research involves serious potential risks and should probably be abandoned indefinitely.
"Julie Germany of White Coat Waste PAC praised the House members for breaking from their Democratic “party bosses” who have done nothing but “foot dragging” on the issue. “The Wuhan animal lab was taxpayer-funded, and voters in both parties deserve to know if gain-of-function animal experiments caused a lab leak and pandemic,” she said."
I'm confused on this point. There are several things that would need to be proved here:
1) The leak came from a lab (seems likely);
2) The leaked pathogen was a result of gain-of-function research;
3) Gain-of-function research itself was somehow responsible for the leak, rather than poor safety protocols (and it just happened to be a gain-of-function pathogen that escaped). I assume medical labs relatively routinely deal in virulent and contagious pathogens. Why did this one get out?
It seems like some, at least, at trying to assume items 2 and 3 from item 1.
It really is NOT a significant policy issue. The CCP has acted very badly what ever their motivation and degree of competence. But essentially nothing that the US did or did not do in response to the pandemic is affected by knowing whether it was a natural crossover and accidental leak of a natural virus from the lab, a lead of a gain-of function virus from a lab or even an non-accidental release of the virus.
We should still have developed vaccines (faster than in fact we did) promoted them better (more messaging of how "good" they are instead of how "safe" they are) without letting them get contaminated by politics and adopted NPI according to sound cost-benefit analysis. Hopefully next pandemic, however it arises, we will.
Is it not significant in terms of banning the GoF research that is still ongoing, and may in fact be accelerated in the name of guarding against the next pandemic?
No. I think we already have suffuent reason to ban gain of function research. And is it not possible that gain of function research might be OK in US labs even if we know that COVID was a leak of a gain of function virus from a Chinese lab? It is a data point that could affect one Beyesian estimate of the riskiness of GoF research but not overwhelmingly important. And it almost certainly should not be something for Congress to get involved in.
Well the bat coronavirus GoF research *did* start in US labs until Obama banned it and it was outsourced to Wuhan. Not sure how it’s much better done here than there — lab accidents happen in America, too.
I definitely think it’s Congress’ business because this stuff is all almost entirely publicly funded through the NIH.
Of course Congress could be the "business" of Congress to investigate. I simply doubt that trying to find out more about whether or not there was a lab leak in China will usefully inform policy on NIH funding of GoF research in the US. Suppose we found a secret email direct from Xi ordering someone to cover up a lab leak. What decision by whom would that affect?
And do we need a Congressional investigation to do that and nothing more than that?
If we are going to have a Congressional investigation of something what about why CDC/FDA do not use cost benefit analysis in their decision-making. :)
Obama didn't ban GOF. He put a moratorium on it and Trump lifted the moratorium. I'm not convinced the lab generated virus didn't come straight out of Fort Detrick and was carried INTO Wuhan via the soldiers who participated (and didn't win a single medal because they got sick) in the World Military Games there. There is NO reason whatsoever for ANY BSL 3 OR BSL 4 labs to exist. They have dangerous pathogens there and Ralph Baric at UNC Chapel Hill as well as Peter Daszak at EcoHealth Alliance and Teflon Tony Fauci at NIAID have their hands deeply into GoF research. In fact, Baric is Tony's favorite GoF scientist. They all should be strung up. So should the Bat Lady, Shi Zhengli but that will never happen because she is protected in China by the CCP. This was no accident. The gene therapy jabs were already patented and "waiting" for the lab created virus to be released. Don't kid yourselves. This was a sterilization and depopulation agenda as well as a way to enrich Big Pharma. Human beings were also the testing subjects for a technology that has NEVER been tested in humans before (mRNA). DoD and BARDA are neck deep in this shit. I doubt seriously there will ever be a congressional investigation. Too many members of Congress are on the take and Big Pharma owns them. Just like 9/11, we will NEVER get to the bottom of who orchestrated the attack on the Twin Towers and Bldg 7 on 9/11/2001. The 9/11 Commission was a joke just like the Warren Commission that was put together by the guy who orchestrated the hit on JFK, Allan Dulles.
Not a moratorium either, a pause, with a lot of Fauci and Collins waivers.
UNC’s Baric got waivers and then exempted from rules because his work was with a chimeric bat virus. (After all, what could go wrong with a novel, chimeric bat coronavirus?) Fauci restarted funding when Trump’s HHS Secretary resigned. He ran around two Administrations of two different parties. Not by accident. https://mobile.twitter.com/capitolsheila/status/1571625027233095680
Baric should be strung up. He continues to work on GoF research with funding from Fauci. He is irredeemable as are any of the psychos who created the virus, turned it loose and forced people to be injected with toxic substances, who imposed lockdowns and forced masking, who decimated small businesses, who closed churches, who forced children to stay at home and not go to school, who lied and told pregnant women that the jabs were perfectly safe for them and their fetuses. NONE OF THESE FUCKING MURDERERS GETS A PASS FROM ME!
I can't speak to the legalese of a "moratorium, code, law or other word play.
It is illegal, immoral, unethical and on the international radar as well as the US under Obama.
If there is a "moratorium," someone violated that. Rule, law, or whatever word game. It just encourages all the re-writing of word definitions that the mad scientists are using when we play along with it.
It seems like you are missing that gain-of-function is already illegal.
International law, scientific ethics, and dozens of other related laws. Obama codified it officially, then Fauci continued his reign from his 1980's genocide and off-shored the production to China and other places.
Are we so weak-minded, with such short memories that we are speculating about something illegal being made illegal?
It is also significant as a case study of how much propaganda, misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation comes from the US government and is uncritically propagated by MSM outlets, tech companies, and even scientific journals. In addition to the need to ban GoF research, there needs to be a ban on government-involved censorship campaigns. And the Fourth Estate needs to do it’s job and serve as a check on government propaganda instead of as a mouthpiece for it. While the virus fades into the background, the pandemic of propaganda and censorship continues to rage unabated.
We're still not discussing that rogue elements of our government used our tax dollars to "pay" Chinese scientists to develop illegal bio-warfare, and they're still doing it. Fauci just re-allocated more funds to his old friends for more of the same.
Nothing has stopped and it is too early to review the game footage because it is still happening.
No, it won't be a bipartisan effort. It won't even be an effort that lasts longer than a heartbeat. Too many members of both parties--currently or previously in power--have tainted hands, directly or indirectly; profited from the pandemic, directly or indirectly; have business interests in China, directly or indirectly.
We may hope for justice, but until both political parties are broken, it's not going to come.
This is an informative take. I do take issue with the SARS example as having provided a clear pathway with evidence. Those destructive scientists who consider themselves above the law [against gain of function bio-warfare] have been generously rewarded for breaking those laws, for decades truly.
In this case, it doesn't help to coach the mad scientists on how to cover their tracks better, and which delivery "routes" we, the public targets, will consider legitimate.
No, I don't know for sure whether "this time" was an intentional release of bio-warfare, or it was just another "accidental one" and they went with it. Given the incredibly close match of all details to their practice run-through, I'm inclined to say it was all exactly on schedule. Time will tell.
Either way, I hope we have our collective antennae "up" for global organizations and their billionaire influencers who openly proclaim there are too many people on the planet and also--notably-- want coerced public health surveillance to be a type of global government beyond any borders or voting rights, with total economic control, currency control, and concentration camps waiting. THAT's a pattern worth noticing.
I remember when Trump was still in office and he kept openly calling it the "China virus." My theory was that he was getting ready to disavow and excuse the US of any financial debt to China. (DIdn't they buy up huge amounts of our national debt and lands?)
It really seemed like Trump was gearing up to say China ruined our economy and the world's so we don't owe them anything. Then, someone must have whispered in his ear, ahem, that "WE" paid them to do it with US taxpayer dollars, grants, and royalties on patents for research that was also paid for by taxpayers. Quite an onion to peel.
China and Russia have benefitted from watching US institutions crumble. The functionality of our society is now at a point where large percentages of Democrats and Republicans speak casually about civil war!
Our enemies don't have to fight with us if they can get us to destroy ourselves. Self-cleaning oven, right there. Plus, they get to "remove" large swathes of their own "useless eaters" without anyone admitting that's what they are doing. (What else would you call sealing people inside their high rises in Shanghai until they starve or jump?)
(?) Kudos for your optimism. I don't really understand your answer. Is this sarcasm?
I personally see both of the accepted parties working together, and against the citizens. For example, Obama finally removes the pre-existing conditions stigma--so tons of people go public thinking, "Finally, my country is a little less horrible to people with issues. I can get treatment now without making my life worse in the future."
Oh. Whoops, hold on there, Sonny Jim. That was only for a couple of years until you were "all in."
Now, that courtesy is rescinded and we're back to withholding care from people who need it--and forcing experimental medicine on everyone! (And NOBODY needs that!) We can't have the wounded warriors slowing down the hard workers or anything. That would be (gasp) socialism of something.
* I only say this because many years ago a Doctor did me a "favor" by not documenting a major issue. Kindness? Malpractice? The two are so close these days, with medical care being a leading cause of death. But I digress.
It seems impossible to think that we are all this collectively stupid. I'm inclined to think that SOMEONE is getting exactly what they want. If I'm correct in that, both political parties have been staffed by betraying minions for a long time.
Transparency and truth aren’t partisan issues. Hopefully, both parties join in/start/continue the digging around COVID-19’s origins. We need lots of help, and there are people in the US who likely know more than they are saying. Kudos to White Coat Waste for getting these commitments to dig for the truth!
It isn't just a matter of partisanship in Congress. The Chinese government wasn't cooperative when WHO tried to investigate, and unless that changes, it's unlikely we'll really be able to reach a definite answer.
I agree that Congressional partisanship and culture war nonsense plays a role in all this, but it's secondary. If the Chinese government really wanted to uncover the truth, they could. But they don't want to, either because they already know it was a lab leak, or because they're worried it might have been, or at least because they're afraid that the truth, whatever it turned out to be, would be embarrassing for them.
I agree, which is what I meant by "both sides of the Pacific." Just added in a few words though to clarify that the reason the Biden investigation was inconclusive was because of Chinese non-cooperation.
Well said - but we're not going to rock the boat either. Too many people with too much to lose. It'll be embarrassing for us as well as them.
It's not just a matter of historical justice, either. Stunningly, virologists CONTINUE to do the dangerous Gain-of-Function research that most likely led to the creation (and accidental release) of Covid-19. This research doesn't even have real scientific or medical value; its' real utility is in keeping virologists employed. Another example of how the professional-managerial class's financial objectives are an irrational driver of public policy, in this case with stunningly tragic results.
It is regrettable that so many commenters are as stubborn as the NIH position: they firmly believe Covid leaked from a lab but have no more evidence than the NIH and some scientists have to support their hypothesis that the Covid virus originated in an animal. Both NIH and commenters here have faith, not evidence, that the virus came from a lab leak. At this time no hard evidence or proof exists to substantiate either hypothesis, even though circumstantial evidence and politics are strongly in favor of a lab accident or contamination. People believe what concurs with their own biases or personal interest. All possible sources for a lab leak or accident need to be considered and pursued and we need to reserve judgment rather than aligning ourselves with opinions that have no substantiating evidence. In any case it is clear that GOF research involves serious potential risks and should probably be abandoned indefinitely.
"Julie Germany of White Coat Waste PAC praised the House members for breaking from their Democratic “party bosses” who have done nothing but “foot dragging” on the issue. “The Wuhan animal lab was taxpayer-funded, and voters in both parties deserve to know if gain-of-function animal experiments caused a lab leak and pandemic,” she said."
I'm confused on this point. There are several things that would need to be proved here:
1) The leak came from a lab (seems likely);
2) The leaked pathogen was a result of gain-of-function research;
3) Gain-of-function research itself was somehow responsible for the leak, rather than poor safety protocols (and it just happened to be a gain-of-function pathogen that escaped). I assume medical labs relatively routinely deal in virulent and contagious pathogens. Why did this one get out?
It seems like some, at least, at trying to assume items 2 and 3 from item 1.
It really is NOT a significant policy issue. The CCP has acted very badly what ever their motivation and degree of competence. But essentially nothing that the US did or did not do in response to the pandemic is affected by knowing whether it was a natural crossover and accidental leak of a natural virus from the lab, a lead of a gain-of function virus from a lab or even an non-accidental release of the virus.
We should still have developed vaccines (faster than in fact we did) promoted them better (more messaging of how "good" they are instead of how "safe" they are) without letting them get contaminated by politics and adopted NPI according to sound cost-benefit analysis. Hopefully next pandemic, however it arises, we will.
Is it not significant in terms of banning the GoF research that is still ongoing, and may in fact be accelerated in the name of guarding against the next pandemic?
No. I think we already have suffuent reason to ban gain of function research. And is it not possible that gain of function research might be OK in US labs even if we know that COVID was a leak of a gain of function virus from a Chinese lab? It is a data point that could affect one Beyesian estimate of the riskiness of GoF research but not overwhelmingly important. And it almost certainly should not be something for Congress to get involved in.
Well the bat coronavirus GoF research *did* start in US labs until Obama banned it and it was outsourced to Wuhan. Not sure how it’s much better done here than there — lab accidents happen in America, too.
I definitely think it’s Congress’ business because this stuff is all almost entirely publicly funded through the NIH.
Of course Congress could be the "business" of Congress to investigate. I simply doubt that trying to find out more about whether or not there was a lab leak in China will usefully inform policy on NIH funding of GoF research in the US. Suppose we found a secret email direct from Xi ordering someone to cover up a lab leak. What decision by whom would that affect?
I’d be pretty happy with their just cutting off EcoHealth Alliance forever.
And do we need a Congressional investigation to do that and nothing more than that?
If we are going to have a Congressional investigation of something what about why CDC/FDA do not use cost benefit analysis in their decision-making. :)
Obama didn't ban GOF. He put a moratorium on it and Trump lifted the moratorium. I'm not convinced the lab generated virus didn't come straight out of Fort Detrick and was carried INTO Wuhan via the soldiers who participated (and didn't win a single medal because they got sick) in the World Military Games there. There is NO reason whatsoever for ANY BSL 3 OR BSL 4 labs to exist. They have dangerous pathogens there and Ralph Baric at UNC Chapel Hill as well as Peter Daszak at EcoHealth Alliance and Teflon Tony Fauci at NIAID have their hands deeply into GoF research. In fact, Baric is Tony's favorite GoF scientist. They all should be strung up. So should the Bat Lady, Shi Zhengli but that will never happen because she is protected in China by the CCP. This was no accident. The gene therapy jabs were already patented and "waiting" for the lab created virus to be released. Don't kid yourselves. This was a sterilization and depopulation agenda as well as a way to enrich Big Pharma. Human beings were also the testing subjects for a technology that has NEVER been tested in humans before (mRNA). DoD and BARDA are neck deep in this shit. I doubt seriously there will ever be a congressional investigation. Too many members of Congress are on the take and Big Pharma owns them. Just like 9/11, we will NEVER get to the bottom of who orchestrated the attack on the Twin Towers and Bldg 7 on 9/11/2001. The 9/11 Commission was a joke just like the Warren Commission that was put together by the guy who orchestrated the hit on JFK, Allan Dulles.
Yes, that's true, it was a moratorium that was lifted — I misspoke.
Baric I think is somewhat redeemed by his not joining the herd in condemning the lab leak hypothesis.
Not a moratorium either, a pause, with a lot of Fauci and Collins waivers.
UNC’s Baric got waivers and then exempted from rules because his work was with a chimeric bat virus. (After all, what could go wrong with a novel, chimeric bat coronavirus?) Fauci restarted funding when Trump’s HHS Secretary resigned. He ran around two Administrations of two different parties. Not by accident. https://mobile.twitter.com/capitolsheila/status/1571625027233095680
Baric should be strung up. He continues to work on GoF research with funding from Fauci. He is irredeemable as are any of the psychos who created the virus, turned it loose and forced people to be injected with toxic substances, who imposed lockdowns and forced masking, who decimated small businesses, who closed churches, who forced children to stay at home and not go to school, who lied and told pregnant women that the jabs were perfectly safe for them and their fetuses. NONE OF THESE FUCKING MURDERERS GETS A PASS FROM ME!
I think Mr. Graham's message rather confirms my view that a Congressional investigation of the lab leak hypothesis will not be productive.
I'm no Trump fan, but I wonder if "Trump" personally lifted the moratorium? (Word games in action)
Is Trump the NIH? https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2017/12/feds-lift-gain-function-research-pause-offer-guidance
Trump's not in office and the NIH is still going strong.
I can't speak to the legalese of a "moratorium, code, law or other word play.
It is illegal, immoral, unethical and on the international radar as well as the US under Obama.
If there is a "moratorium," someone violated that. Rule, law, or whatever word game. It just encourages all the re-writing of word definitions that the mad scientists are using when we play along with it.
It seems like you are missing that gain-of-function is already illegal.
International law, scientific ethics, and dozens of other related laws. Obama codified it officially, then Fauci continued his reign from his 1980's genocide and off-shored the production to China and other places.
Are we so weak-minded, with such short memories that we are speculating about something illegal being made illegal?
It is also significant as a case study of how much propaganda, misinformation, disinformation, and malinformation comes from the US government and is uncritically propagated by MSM outlets, tech companies, and even scientific journals. In addition to the need to ban GoF research, there needs to be a ban on government-involved censorship campaigns. And the Fourth Estate needs to do it’s job and serve as a check on government propaganda instead of as a mouthpiece for it. While the virus fades into the background, the pandemic of propaganda and censorship continues to rage unabated.
We're still not discussing that rogue elements of our government used our tax dollars to "pay" Chinese scientists to develop illegal bio-warfare, and they're still doing it. Fauci just re-allocated more funds to his old friends for more of the same.
Nothing has stopped and it is too early to review the game footage because it is still happening.
Collins and Fauci have orchestrated the entire "conspiracy" theory of the lab leak. Fauci flat out lied to Congress and he should be held accountable. This interview with Redfield also lends credence to this article https://disinformationchronicle.substack.com/p/former-cdc-director-robert-redfield
Often Only Through the lens of history do we decide the "Straw" that broke the power of the arrogant "To big to fail"
Peace and prosperity Through responsibilities
"Too big to fail "really means "too big to exist."
No, it won't be a bipartisan effort. It won't even be an effort that lasts longer than a heartbeat. Too many members of both parties--currently or previously in power--have tainted hands, directly or indirectly; profited from the pandemic, directly or indirectly; have business interests in China, directly or indirectly.
We may hope for justice, but until both political parties are broken, it's not going to come.
Upton Sinclair 1878–1968. American novelist and social reformer:
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends on his not understanding it."
My low-volume substack blog "Random Thoughts"
has a couple of posts on the woeful lag of regulation
of gain of function research. It's overwhelming likely that
COVID originated at WIV. We know they planned to make a COVID-like virus
with an introduced Furin cleavage site in Wuhan. What's the chance that this is
a coincidence? Then the New York Times spins the recent Republican report as
"no new evidence". We don't need new evidence -- the old evidence is quite enough.
This is an informative take. I do take issue with the SARS example as having provided a clear pathway with evidence. Those destructive scientists who consider themselves above the law [against gain of function bio-warfare] have been generously rewarded for breaking those laws, for decades truly.
In this case, it doesn't help to coach the mad scientists on how to cover their tracks better, and which delivery "routes" we, the public targets, will consider legitimate.
No, I don't know for sure whether "this time" was an intentional release of bio-warfare, or it was just another "accidental one" and they went with it. Given the incredibly close match of all details to their practice run-through, I'm inclined to say it was all exactly on schedule. Time will tell.
Either way, I hope we have our collective antennae "up" for global organizations and their billionaire influencers who openly proclaim there are too many people on the planet and also--notably-- want coerced public health surveillance to be a type of global government beyond any borders or voting rights, with total economic control, currency control, and concentration camps waiting. THAT's a pattern worth noticing.
I remember when Trump was still in office and he kept openly calling it the "China virus." My theory was that he was getting ready to disavow and excuse the US of any financial debt to China. (DIdn't they buy up huge amounts of our national debt and lands?)
It really seemed like Trump was gearing up to say China ruined our economy and the world's so we don't owe them anything. Then, someone must have whispered in his ear, ahem, that "WE" paid them to do it with US taxpayer dollars, grants, and royalties on patents for research that was also paid for by taxpayers. Quite an onion to peel.
China and Russia have benefitted from watching US institutions crumble. The functionality of our society is now at a point where large percentages of Democrats and Republicans speak casually about civil war!
Our enemies don't have to fight with us if they can get us to destroy ourselves. Self-cleaning oven, right there. Plus, they get to "remove" large swathes of their own "useless eaters" without anyone admitting that's what they are doing. (What else would you call sealing people inside their high rises in Shanghai until they starve or jump?)
https://br.ifunny.co/picture/5a8vQuAW9
(?) Kudos for your optimism. I don't really understand your answer. Is this sarcasm?
I personally see both of the accepted parties working together, and against the citizens. For example, Obama finally removes the pre-existing conditions stigma--so tons of people go public thinking, "Finally, my country is a little less horrible to people with issues. I can get treatment now without making my life worse in the future."
Oh. Whoops, hold on there, Sonny Jim. That was only for a couple of years until you were "all in."
Now, that courtesy is rescinded and we're back to withholding care from people who need it--and forcing experimental medicine on everyone! (And NOBODY needs that!) We can't have the wounded warriors slowing down the hard workers or anything. That would be (gasp) socialism of something.
* I only say this because many years ago a Doctor did me a "favor" by not documenting a major issue. Kindness? Malpractice? The two are so close these days, with medical care being a leading cause of death. But I digress.
It seems impossible to think that we are all this collectively stupid. I'm inclined to think that SOMEONE is getting exactly what they want. If I'm correct in that, both political parties have been staffed by betraying minions for a long time.
Transparency and truth aren’t partisan issues. Hopefully, both parties join in/start/continue the digging around COVID-19’s origins. We need lots of help, and there are people in the US who likely know more than they are saying. Kudos to White Coat Waste for getting these commitments to dig for the truth!
Thanks for sharing this news, Leighton.