I am disturbed by a world in which David French is insightful, but here he is, and here we are.
More seriously, as always you have a unique ability to take something we're experiencing but don't know how to adequately explain and explain it. Thank you.
This whole thing started when Democrats targeted Trump with the bogus NY civil and criminal cases. As Eli Lake points out, the problem with bending the rules to get your political opponents is that it doesn't end there. Soon, the norms have been replaced with a series of tit for tat transgressions as each side seeks to weaponize the state against its opponents.
In Rome, that meant the end of the Republic and the transition to empire.
The problem being that the prosecutions weren't bogus. Trump did commit the crimes. So either he gets to break the law, or half the country gets pissed he isn't allowed to break the law. No good outcomes. Especially because 'they prosecuted me so I'm prosecutimg them' means that actually breaking the law becomed irrelevant to getting prosecuted.
Here's the basic premise in the founding of the Enlightenment Model of the US: Rights were given to you by your Creator, not by your government. Your government didn't give them to you so, they can't take them away. Furthermore the 9th Amendment to the Constitution makes these guarantees explicit. If any person in the government tries to take them away anyway, despite lacking any authority to do so, they are traitors to the citizens and must be treated as such.
A common misconception regarding the US government is that it is not the case that they start with total power and authority and the Constitution then subtracts from those powers. Under the Constitutional Principle of Enumerated Powers and despite common wisdom, the government actually starts with zero power. Powers are then granted (Enumerated) by the Constitution. This means that our Natural Rights such as the right to Privacy or the right to Free Speech do not need to be explicitly granted to the populace - we have them by default. (The Bill of Rights, while unnecessary, is a constant reminder of these exquisite qualities as well as an invaluable educational tool.) What it does mean is that the government cannot violate those rights unless the ability to do so is explicitly granted by the Constitution - which in those cases it is not.
That’s all there is to it. Not many things are more genius in their brevity—We hold all of the cards, they serve at our indulgence. Any power or action not explicitly granted by, We The People, the government cannot legitimately wield or execute. When they do so anyway, it is our civic duty to evict and convict them. When we fail to perform this task…
Every the Federal Government works for us and they’ve collectively, abjectly invalidated themselves by abrogating their duties, for breaking and trampling all over every oath of office, for committing every crime we have a law for, and for subjugating us—meaning we do not have legitimate leadership and instead have a bunch of criminals masquerading as our government. It is time to evict them and take back what is ours.
The issue is the right to life has been demonstrated to be one of those rights the government can remove, without anyone responsible being treated as a traitor.
And due process has attached with a final order of an immigration court. These individuals have been granted hearings, allowed to bring witnesses, confront their accusers and enter testimony. When, after all of that and following the expiration of any grace period for voluntary exit you don't surrender, the law is going to come for you.
The open border policy was designed to swamp and outright overwhelm the due process you mention along with our social safety nets. Cloward-Piven in full swing.
Renee Good was not merely “documenting” law enforcement officers. Please be honest. There is a distinction between documenting from a distance and using your vehicle to perpendicularly park in the middle of the road to block them in, and then refuse to get out of the car when you are told to do so as you are obstructing traffic and law enforcement, and then to chose to hit the gas pedal instead of complying with an officers demands. If I did that same thing tomorrow as cops in my town arrested people for anything at all, I would be putting myself in danger as well. The constant comparisons to Nazi Germany are actually not helpful. Like the boy who cried wolf, it has lost its impact because of how over used that is. And when we see video after video of people blocking and impeding officers with their cars, refusing to follow basic commands, and then saying they are merely “documenting” doesn’t actually help, it just makes you look like liars. It’s obvious there’s people who are some people who are choosing to break the law. You should be honest about that as well, because people see it. And people aren’t stupid. Same thing with acting like going in a church and terrorizing people in the middle of a service is “exercising free speech”. It isn’t. I’m from a conservative family in a conservative state. Every time I try to listen to a perspective more from the left than I am, I find this type of dishonesty.
Whoever is in power primary responsibility is maintaining the supremacy of the federal government over the states.
Currently perhaps the only campaign promise Trump made that he didn't back away from or flip flop on has been deportation.
The Democrats wisely ran warning of this very scenario befaling us yet the people (in the majority) chose this policy.
If the people via the ballot chose this, is the machinations against this policy antidemocratic?
I'm sure the people of Minneapolis mostly didn't vote for this but what allowence are we allowed to give to the minority?
If it's a veto to anything they don't approve, well this how we get to where we are in which nothing gets done.
I detest the goonery and the celebration of the current ICE agents but if Texas chose to not work with ATF and elected officials celebrated supporters following filming and disrupting the agencies functions would we have the same outcry from those with so much to say currently?
Both sides are heaping kindling to this situation with frankly equal levels of stupidity of the ramifications.
since my last comment was deleted "mistakenly", I'll add another one. Has anyone who is up in arms now asked themselves, "where was the anti-ice crew when obama deported 3MM illegals?" is this even discussed at the local "stop ICE" chapter meetings?? further, i realize nobody now has a memory beyond 5 minutes ago, but listen to politicians of ALL stripes 10 years ago talking about the dangers of illegal immigration (mostly while doing nothing, mild exception for BHO). this idea that we should flood the country with illegals, give them endless resources, look the other way on the fraud, etc. is a new concept. where did it come from?? those who claim it is "humanitarian" are lying. this was proven when the busload of immigrants to marthas vineyard were removed in 48 hours by the national guard. there arent 5 zip codes in america with more empty rooms and excess money to give these people than MV. could it be that the fraud and looting the public coffers is actually the point, not an unintended consequence?? trump has removed currently less than a third of aliens that BHO did, and people write articles like it is the end of the constitution?? actually it is enforcing the constitution!
my previous comment was not about the specifics of Renee Good and the shooting. it was simply about the acceptance of these tactics to "block ICE", that wouldnt be accepted in any other circumstance. the 80K/year low level ICE agent who is being doxxed and screamed at every day is no different than the 80K/yr police officer or fireman. he is carrying out a legal order, that he didnt come up with himself. would anyone be OK if these clowns blocked traffic for fire trucks?? if the mayor is a racist, is it OK to keep firemen from reaching a burning building? how about stopping police responding to a mass shooting?? it is against the law to be here illegally and it is against the law to impede law enforcement. if you dont like it, change the laws (which you could have done 3 or 4 times in the last 20+ years)
You seriously going to put "mistakenly" in scare quotes? You think I deleted your comment and then covered it up as some big performance to prevent people from reading your dangerous indictment of me?
ICE is actually blocking ambulances from getting to injured people, so asking if it's ok if protestors do it feels like projection.
As far as your main question, "Abolish ICE" has been a lefty position since ICE was created. Kinda surprised you didn't realize it's one of the reasons the left turned on Obama, along with drone strikes and bank bailouts.
really?? "the left turned on obama..."- seriously?? is that why they begged his wife to run for pres? is that why after the debate everyone had to get his permission before casting out the cardboard cutout of biden?? is that why he was brought in to save kamala's candidacy in the last month of the election?? the left hasnt turned on obama. maybe the ultra fringe complete nut job left has, but that is it.
so i will ask again, why werent you starting riots when obama deported 3x as many illegals??
250 people at an actually peaceful march in washington in 2014, is different from 1000's blocking ICE trucks, screaming at the agents, rioting in cities, and storming churches. i hope you are capable of seeing this??
bernie sanders was a "build the wall" guy way before trump made it cool. go ahead and look it up, i'll wait. they are hard to find in our new curated news environment but there are plenty of clips of him railing against illegal immigration 20+ years ago, when he was just a lone socialist nut from VT and didnt have presidential aspirations. i get that his flipflops lately in an attempt to fool as many people as possible are hard to follow...
What has amazed and discouraged me most is the number of people I’ve encountered who firmly believe “she had it coming” because she was “an activist” and “she broke the law blocking traffic and tried to run over the ICE agent.” When I point out the video shows he moved and wasn’t even knocked down by the side mirror, it makes no difference.
The rationale I hear the most is Law and Order will collapse if authorities are not (blindly) obeyed. No matter how minor the infraction, it’s an infraction and “they were asking for it!” Common sense and common decency be damned.
To be fair though, if a cop told you to get out of the car, and other cops started surrounding you, would you chose to ignore them and hit the gas pedal instead. This is never a good plan
Do you remember that land use dispute a few years ago where citizens were setting up sniper positions threatening feds and the conservatives got in a huge snit because they were threatened with arrest for it?
As a former longtime elected prosecutor, part of my job was to assess police shootings and determine if there was criminal behavior, or failing that, if the shooting was what is referred to in the insular law enforcement world as a "bad shooting."
That term doesn't necessarily mean criminal behavior, but does mean the officer should not have used deadly force and as a result is putting the agency that employs him at great civil liability.
The shooting in Minneapolis is different for several reasons. Federal officers - for very good reasons - enjoy personal immunity, that does not shield their employing agency from litigation. Think of what would have happened in Mississippi in 1962 if the federal marshals guarding James Meredith could be sued in that state's civil courts of that era?
Change agencies and targets and instead assume there are DEA agents raiding a drug house where many of the residents are hostile to the enforcement action. Would using private vehicles to block agents , screaming obscenities and threats at the agents, and doxxing their families be viewed the same way?
Trump is grossly misusing ICE officers, whose actual remit is much more limited than what they are doing. But when someone decides they will pursue federal officers and interpose their cars or selves between the agents and their targets, violent confrontation is inevitable. The only way to defeat Trump is to elect a Democratic Congress in 2026. It won't stop him, but it will slow him down a lot.
Compelling application of the dual state framework here. The genius isn't just that it operates two sets of rules simultaneously - it's that the liminal zone itself becomes the control mechanism. When people can't discern which rules apply in any moment, self-censorship and compliance become probabilistic rather than principled. I've noticed how this uncertinty fundamentally alters discourse - dunno if you're risking anything by speaking up, so why take the chance? The inscrutable enforcement patterns are a feature, not bug.
Yet another opportunity to praise Glenn Greenwald – he published an entire book on the two-tiered justice system…in 2012! As Leighton once said, the most consistent man alive.
Total BS. Renee Good lived in a delusional state wherein women, and especially lesbians, are granted extraordinary privilege to break laws and act in a way contrary to an orderly, normal society, without any punishment or negative consequences.
just to put a bow on the ridiculousness of the current hysterical hypocrisy. here is tom homan (currently the 2nd or 3rd most evil man in america?) getting an award from barack obama (currently the left's leading super hero) for his success at deporting people. sorry i cant put the photo in here, but its worth googling...
Do you actually think this was a coherent critique? There are criticisms to be made of the way ICE has gone about its business, but this is just dumb. I wasted my time reading your thoughts on one other occasion, but I won't make that mistake again--not because I disagree with you, but because your ramblings are shallow and pointless.
Another angle on this story, is that ICE not only existed under Obama, but was quite active and deported hundreds of thousands of people. Did they only become thuggish and unprofessional/operating unconstitutionally under Trump? Or were the Mainstream news cameras simply not pointing them, since CNN etc. Is loathe to criticize Democratic administrations? The true left wingers were still critical.
Even with independent journalism and social media the legacy Networks still decide whats a story and whats not so now we get this feedback loop between network news and the far left heating up the story to 1400 degrees. Under a democratic administration it would not be a story, but would this “dual state” disappear?
I read these articles so I don’t lose touch with objective reality. That said its not easy for me to sympathize with activists blowing air horns and trying to block ICE. Though I do think ICE is poorly trained and thuggish. The Police could be used for crowd control, however MN doesn’t allow that. I think the point is well taken that there was a disconnect on the part of activists calling ICE gestapo yet assuming they would never act like gestapo. Few people are actually principled. Seldom does anyone voice the opinion that Open borders are bad and also ICE behaves like thugs. I would be surprised if any activists believe anyone should be deported under any circumstance. Staying out of their way is a rational decision. Fighting the police is a type of insanity. What would a sane principled person do to correct this?
I am disturbed by a world in which David French is insightful, but here he is, and here we are.
More seriously, as always you have a unique ability to take something we're experiencing but don't know how to adequately explain and explain it. Thank you.
This whole thing started when Democrats targeted Trump with the bogus NY civil and criminal cases. As Eli Lake points out, the problem with bending the rules to get your political opponents is that it doesn't end there. Soon, the norms have been replaced with a series of tit for tat transgressions as each side seeks to weaponize the state against its opponents.
In Rome, that meant the end of the Republic and the transition to empire.
If you believe it started with those cases, you tuned in to the show way too late
That's when the volume got turned up from two to ten. There's no doubt about that.
The problem being that the prosecutions weren't bogus. Trump did commit the crimes. So either he gets to break the law, or half the country gets pissed he isn't allowed to break the law. No good outcomes. Especially because 'they prosecuted me so I'm prosecutimg them' means that actually breaking the law becomed irrelevant to getting prosecuted.
Nobody knows what crime Trump was accused of in the criminal case and the civil proceeding is being thrown out.
"I'm ignorant so everyone else must be too" is not a great argumen.
I mean "nobody" as in literally nobody.
If you feel you know, feel free to post up your guess and I'll prove you wrong.
Jack Smith for the ones not prosecuted. The jury, where he was fine guilty. Hundreds of thousands of others.
Yes we do.
Here's the basic premise in the founding of the Enlightenment Model of the US: Rights were given to you by your Creator, not by your government. Your government didn't give them to you so, they can't take them away. Furthermore the 9th Amendment to the Constitution makes these guarantees explicit. If any person in the government tries to take them away anyway, despite lacking any authority to do so, they are traitors to the citizens and must be treated as such.
A common misconception regarding the US government is that it is not the case that they start with total power and authority and the Constitution then subtracts from those powers. Under the Constitutional Principle of Enumerated Powers and despite common wisdom, the government actually starts with zero power. Powers are then granted (Enumerated) by the Constitution. This means that our Natural Rights such as the right to Privacy or the right to Free Speech do not need to be explicitly granted to the populace - we have them by default. (The Bill of Rights, while unnecessary, is a constant reminder of these exquisite qualities as well as an invaluable educational tool.) What it does mean is that the government cannot violate those rights unless the ability to do so is explicitly granted by the Constitution - which in those cases it is not.
That’s all there is to it. Not many things are more genius in their brevity—We hold all of the cards, they serve at our indulgence. Any power or action not explicitly granted by, We The People, the government cannot legitimately wield or execute. When they do so anyway, it is our civic duty to evict and convict them. When we fail to perform this task…
Every the Federal Government works for us and they’ve collectively, abjectly invalidated themselves by abrogating their duties, for breaking and trampling all over every oath of office, for committing every crime we have a law for, and for subjugating us—meaning we do not have legitimate leadership and instead have a bunch of criminals masquerading as our government. It is time to evict them and take back what is ours.
The issue is the right to life has been demonstrated to be one of those rights the government can remove, without anyone responsible being treated as a traitor.
And due process has attached with a final order of an immigration court. These individuals have been granted hearings, allowed to bring witnesses, confront their accusers and enter testimony. When, after all of that and following the expiration of any grace period for voluntary exit you don't surrender, the law is going to come for you.
The open border policy was designed to swamp and outright overwhelm the due process you mention along with our social safety nets. Cloward-Piven in full swing.
Renee Good was not merely “documenting” law enforcement officers. Please be honest. There is a distinction between documenting from a distance and using your vehicle to perpendicularly park in the middle of the road to block them in, and then refuse to get out of the car when you are told to do so as you are obstructing traffic and law enforcement, and then to chose to hit the gas pedal instead of complying with an officers demands. If I did that same thing tomorrow as cops in my town arrested people for anything at all, I would be putting myself in danger as well. The constant comparisons to Nazi Germany are actually not helpful. Like the boy who cried wolf, it has lost its impact because of how over used that is. And when we see video after video of people blocking and impeding officers with their cars, refusing to follow basic commands, and then saying they are merely “documenting” doesn’t actually help, it just makes you look like liars. It’s obvious there’s people who are some people who are choosing to break the law. You should be honest about that as well, because people see it. And people aren’t stupid. Same thing with acting like going in a church and terrorizing people in the middle of a service is “exercising free speech”. It isn’t. I’m from a conservative family in a conservative state. Every time I try to listen to a perspective more from the left than I am, I find this type of dishonesty.
Question: is this still true in the four states that have legalized driving cars into protestors?
Whoever is in power primary responsibility is maintaining the supremacy of the federal government over the states.
Currently perhaps the only campaign promise Trump made that he didn't back away from or flip flop on has been deportation.
The Democrats wisely ran warning of this very scenario befaling us yet the people (in the majority) chose this policy.
If the people via the ballot chose this, is the machinations against this policy antidemocratic?
I'm sure the people of Minneapolis mostly didn't vote for this but what allowence are we allowed to give to the minority?
If it's a veto to anything they don't approve, well this how we get to where we are in which nothing gets done.
I detest the goonery and the celebration of the current ICE agents but if Texas chose to not work with ATF and elected officials celebrated supporters following filming and disrupting the agencies functions would we have the same outcry from those with so much to say currently?
Both sides are heaping kindling to this situation with frankly equal levels of stupidity of the ramifications.
The people who voted for this are the ones being spared it. The ones who voted against it are having it inflicted on them. Bit of an issue there.
since my last comment was deleted "mistakenly", I'll add another one. Has anyone who is up in arms now asked themselves, "where was the anti-ice crew when obama deported 3MM illegals?" is this even discussed at the local "stop ICE" chapter meetings?? further, i realize nobody now has a memory beyond 5 minutes ago, but listen to politicians of ALL stripes 10 years ago talking about the dangers of illegal immigration (mostly while doing nothing, mild exception for BHO). this idea that we should flood the country with illegals, give them endless resources, look the other way on the fraud, etc. is a new concept. where did it come from?? those who claim it is "humanitarian" are lying. this was proven when the busload of immigrants to marthas vineyard were removed in 48 hours by the national guard. there arent 5 zip codes in america with more empty rooms and excess money to give these people than MV. could it be that the fraud and looting the public coffers is actually the point, not an unintended consequence?? trump has removed currently less than a third of aliens that BHO did, and people write articles like it is the end of the constitution?? actually it is enforcing the constitution!
my previous comment was not about the specifics of Renee Good and the shooting. it was simply about the acceptance of these tactics to "block ICE", that wouldnt be accepted in any other circumstance. the 80K/year low level ICE agent who is being doxxed and screamed at every day is no different than the 80K/yr police officer or fireman. he is carrying out a legal order, that he didnt come up with himself. would anyone be OK if these clowns blocked traffic for fire trucks?? if the mayor is a racist, is it OK to keep firemen from reaching a burning building? how about stopping police responding to a mass shooting?? it is against the law to be here illegally and it is against the law to impede law enforcement. if you dont like it, change the laws (which you could have done 3 or 4 times in the last 20+ years)
You seriously going to put "mistakenly" in scare quotes? You think I deleted your comment and then covered it up as some big performance to prevent people from reading your dangerous indictment of me?
ICE is actually blocking ambulances from getting to injured people, so asking if it's ok if protestors do it feels like projection.
As far as your main question, "Abolish ICE" has been a lefty position since ICE was created. Kinda surprised you didn't realize it's one of the reasons the left turned on Obama, along with drone strikes and bank bailouts.
really?? "the left turned on obama..."- seriously?? is that why they begged his wife to run for pres? is that why after the debate everyone had to get his permission before casting out the cardboard cutout of biden?? is that why he was brought in to save kamala's candidacy in the last month of the election?? the left hasnt turned on obama. maybe the ultra fringe complete nut job left has, but that is it.
so i will ask again, why werent you starting riots when obama deported 3x as many illegals??
Ah. You don't know anything about anyone to the left of the New York Times. That would explain a lot.
And because editing is apparently turned off...
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/latino/immigration-advocates-rally-curb-deportations-n72796
250 people at an actually peaceful march in washington in 2014, is different from 1000's blocking ICE trucks, screaming at the agents, rioting in cities, and storming churches. i hope you are capable of seeing this??
bernie sanders was a "build the wall" guy way before trump made it cool. go ahead and look it up, i'll wait. they are hard to find in our new curated news environment but there are plenty of clips of him railing against illegal immigration 20+ years ago, when he was just a lone socialist nut from VT and didnt have presidential aspirations. i get that his flipflops lately in an attempt to fool as many people as possible are hard to follow...
Turning people away at the border is different than breaking down doors, kidnapping people out of schools, and shooting those who interfer.
I hope you are capable of seeing this?
Point is, the left did protest. The left is also small. Now, with the secret police vibes, the center is starting to show up too.
What has amazed and discouraged me most is the number of people I’ve encountered who firmly believe “she had it coming” because she was “an activist” and “she broke the law blocking traffic and tried to run over the ICE agent.” When I point out the video shows he moved and wasn’t even knocked down by the side mirror, it makes no difference.
The rationale I hear the most is Law and Order will collapse if authorities are not (blindly) obeyed. No matter how minor the infraction, it’s an infraction and “they were asking for it!” Common sense and common decency be damned.
To be fair though, if a cop told you to get out of the car, and other cops started surrounding you, would you chose to ignore them and hit the gas pedal instead. This is never a good plan
Do you remember that land use dispute a few years ago where citizens were setting up sniper positions threatening feds and the conservatives got in a huge snit because they were threatened with arrest for it?
I do.
As a former longtime elected prosecutor, part of my job was to assess police shootings and determine if there was criminal behavior, or failing that, if the shooting was what is referred to in the insular law enforcement world as a "bad shooting."
That term doesn't necessarily mean criminal behavior, but does mean the officer should not have used deadly force and as a result is putting the agency that employs him at great civil liability.
The shooting in Minneapolis is different for several reasons. Federal officers - for very good reasons - enjoy personal immunity, that does not shield their employing agency from litigation. Think of what would have happened in Mississippi in 1962 if the federal marshals guarding James Meredith could be sued in that state's civil courts of that era?
Change agencies and targets and instead assume there are DEA agents raiding a drug house where many of the residents are hostile to the enforcement action. Would using private vehicles to block agents , screaming obscenities and threats at the agents, and doxxing their families be viewed the same way?
Trump is grossly misusing ICE officers, whose actual remit is much more limited than what they are doing. But when someone decides they will pursue federal officers and interpose their cars or selves between the agents and their targets, violent confrontation is inevitable. The only way to defeat Trump is to elect a Democratic Congress in 2026. It won't stop him, but it will slow him down a lot.
It's going to be amusing watching people flip-flop when it's feds collecting illegal guns instead of grabbing immigrants.
Compelling application of the dual state framework here. The genius isn't just that it operates two sets of rules simultaneously - it's that the liminal zone itself becomes the control mechanism. When people can't discern which rules apply in any moment, self-censorship and compliance become probabilistic rather than principled. I've noticed how this uncertinty fundamentally alters discourse - dunno if you're risking anything by speaking up, so why take the chance? The inscrutable enforcement patterns are a feature, not bug.
Yet another opportunity to praise Glenn Greenwald – he published an entire book on the two-tiered justice system…in 2012! As Leighton once said, the most consistent man alive.
Total BS. Renee Good lived in a delusional state wherein women, and especially lesbians, are granted extraordinary privilege to break laws and act in a way contrary to an orderly, normal society, without any punishment or negative consequences.
She was encouraged to do so, and she Found Out.
Allowed to break laws? No, you are thinking about Republicans, not lesbians. J6 pardons and the like.
just to put a bow on the ridiculousness of the current hysterical hypocrisy. here is tom homan (currently the 2nd or 3rd most evil man in america?) getting an award from barack obama (currently the left's leading super hero) for his success at deporting people. sorry i cant put the photo in here, but its worth googling...
https://www.ice.gov/news/releases/ero-ead-thomas-homan-receives-2015-presidential-rank-award
Remember how big an outcry there was with Elon Gonzalez getting a gun pointed at him in Florida? We sure have gotten callous since then...
A more efficient question would be, what rights have been taken away from you? That list takes no time whatsoever to create.
Life? Life is the concerning one.
Do you actually think this was a coherent critique? There are criticisms to be made of the way ICE has gone about its business, but this is just dumb. I wasted my time reading your thoughts on one other occasion, but I won't make that mistake again--not because I disagree with you, but because your ramblings are shallow and pointless.
bye.
Another angle on this story, is that ICE not only existed under Obama, but was quite active and deported hundreds of thousands of people. Did they only become thuggish and unprofessional/operating unconstitutionally under Trump? Or were the Mainstream news cameras simply not pointing them, since CNN etc. Is loathe to criticize Democratic administrations? The true left wingers were still critical.
Even with independent journalism and social media the legacy Networks still decide whats a story and whats not so now we get this feedback loop between network news and the far left heating up the story to 1400 degrees. Under a democratic administration it would not be a story, but would this “dual state” disappear?
I read these articles so I don’t lose touch with objective reality. That said its not easy for me to sympathize with activists blowing air horns and trying to block ICE. Though I do think ICE is poorly trained and thuggish. The Police could be used for crowd control, however MN doesn’t allow that. I think the point is well taken that there was a disconnect on the part of activists calling ICE gestapo yet assuming they would never act like gestapo. Few people are actually principled. Seldom does anyone voice the opinion that Open borders are bad and also ICE behaves like thugs. I would be surprised if any activists believe anyone should be deported under any circumstance. Staying out of their way is a rational decision. Fighting the police is a type of insanity. What would a sane principled person do to correct this?